Against Celsus 8.7
Summary: Origen challenges Celsus to say what heroes and demons are and how they could be harmed by divided service, and what harm a human master suffers if his servant serves another.
Greek text · Koetschau 2:226
Εἶτʼ ἐπεὶ ἔδοξε τῶν φαινομένων αὐτῷ βαθύτερόν τινα κινεῖν λόγον ὁ Κέλσος περὶ ἡρώων καί τινων δαιμόνων, λέγων μετὰ τὸν περὶ τῆς πρὸς ἀνθρώπους δουλείας λόγον, ὡς βλαπτομένου τοῦ προτέρου, ᾧ τις δουλεύειν βούλεται, ἐὰν δουλεύειν θέλῃ καὶ δευτέρῳ, ὅτι εἴη δʼ ἂν τὸ αὐτὸ καὶ περὶ ἡρώων τε καὶ τῶν τοιούτων δαιμόνων· πευστέον αὐτοῦ, τί νοεῖ τοὺς ἥρωας, καὶ ποδαποὺς εἶναι λέγει τοὺς τοιούτους δαίμονας; ὥστε τὸν δουλεύοντα τῷδε τῷ ἥρωϊ καὶ μὴ ἑτέρῳ δουλεύειν δεῖν, καὶ τῷ τοιῷδε δαίμονι μὴ καὶ ἄλλῳ δουλεύειν· ὡς βλαπτομένου ἀνάλογον τοῖς βλαπτομένοις ἀνθρώποις τοῦ προτέρου δαίμονος, οἷς τις ἐλάτρευσε πρὸ τῶν δευτέρων. ἀλλὰ καὶ τίνα βλάβην οἴεται εἶναι ἡρώων ἢ τῶν τοιῶνδε δαιμόνων, παραστησάτω. ἀναγκασθήσεται γὰρ ἤτοι εἰς πέλαγος φλυαρίας ἐμπεσὼν ἀναλαβεῖν τὸν λόγον καὶ ἀθετῆσαι τὰ εἰρημένα ἢ μὴ φλυαρεῖν θέλων ὁμολογεῖν ὅτι οὔτε ἥρωας οὔτε δαιμόνων φύσιν ἐπίσταται. εἰς δὲ τὸν περὶ ἀνθρώπων λόγον, βλαπτομένων τῶν προτέρων, ἐὰν δουλεύῃ τις δευτέρῳ, λεκτέον· ποίαν βλάβην φησὶ γίνεσθαι τῷ προτέρῳ ἀνθρώπῳ, εἰ ὁ δουλεύων αὐτῷ δουλεύειν ἐθέλει καὶ ἑτέρῳ;
English · Claude translation
Then, since Celsus thought he was raising a teaching deeper than appears about heroes and certain demons, saying, after his argument about service to men (that the first person one wishes to serve is harmed if one wishes to serve a second as well), that “the same would hold of heroes and such demons,” we must ask him what he means by heroes, and of what kind he says such demons are, so that one who serves this hero must not serve another, and one who serves such a demon must not serve another as well, as though the first demon, to whom one gave worship before the second, were harmed in the same way as men are harmed. Let him show too what harm he thinks heroes or such demons suffer. For he will be forced either to fall into a sea of nonsense and then take back his argument and reject what he has said, or, if he does not wish to talk nonsense, to admit that he knows neither heroes nor the nature of demons. And to his argument about men, that the first are harmed if one serves a second, we must say: what harm does he say comes to the first man if one who serves him wishes to serve another as well?
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Cite this passage
Origen, Cels. 8.7 (trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/origen-celsum/8/7/).
Plain text
Origen, Cels. 8.7 (trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/origen-celsum/8/7/).
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